Numbers of restraint related deaths in the past forty years

[giveupbehaviourismnow]

I was reading anarticle which claims that over the past forty years over 2533 people have died in settings such as prisons, secure hospitals, immigration detention centres and police custody, thats 63/64 people a year, 1 this week somewhere and next week!
How many have died who are not in these settings?
To me it is staggering that we still allow floor restraint at all.
I also believe that one LHB in wales has banned all floor restraint (When I confirm this I will post the LHB name and I think we should email them in support)

[forumAdmin]

Can you give us a reference to find this article
ta

[robw]

These might help shed light onto these figures:

"At the UFFC procession yesterday stewards were handing out leaflets with the names of people who have died in custody in the UK during the past 40 years. Around 2,533 have died whilst in the “care” of the cops, prisons, secure hospitals and immigration detention centres. List isn’t complete. On that list was the name of Clinton McCurbin."
http://harpymarx.wordpress.com/category/deaths-in-custody/
http://harpymarx.wordpress.com/2008/10/25/united-families-and-friends-campaign-demo-no-justice-no-peace/

"Over the past 30 years, more than 1,000 people have died in Britain in police custody."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/aug/05/comment.race

[giveupbehaviourismnow]

Robw,
do we read the same stuff? thats where I saw it.

Also this is from the Powys LHB policy entitled
"Restrictive Physical Interevntion"

Does this mean not to use floor stuff?

NB Holds which restrict breathing must be avoided along with those which involve taking the assailant to the floor and prone restraint procedures due to the risk of breathing difficulties.

not to mention death by vomit or heart attacks, breathing issues are not the only killer!

It does say must be avoided, but will this be interpreted as

"It only hurts if you move"
or
"It's just discomfort, not pain"

always nice to hear!!!

[robw]

I have no idea what you read....

I merely "googled" your claims and come up with a direct match on the statistics.... I assume given their parity the originate from the same source.

The "guardian" link seems to suggest that 1000 people have died in police related restraints in the past 30 years - it was merely posted to put a perspective on your original statement as it (by your own post) includes deaths in police custody. This is unverified but I did find the same stat in several places. I was unable to find these stats for the past 40 years and therefore unable to give exact figures.

It might be helpful if you post your references. We can then read what you are reading.

[giveupbehaviourismnow]

Robw,
I find your reply a little on the offensive side. Are we not allowed opinions. Sources and facts do not change the world, our emotions do. An example, electric shcks and other aversives work when bringing behaviour under rapid control so why do we not use them? possibly because of human connectivity? (emotions)

It is because of my emotions on this subject that I try to change and influence practice, possibly come here because of community, not because the contingencies are right.

Have a nice day.

[forumAdmin]

I would like to wade in before this goes further.

We are all entitled to our opinions on this board and we should respect same.

That said it is important that you post the links to information that you comment (or give your opinion) on. This was requested by myself in post 2 of this thread. It is important so that readers can read you opinion and view the source to form their own opinion.

We shall all get different views from external and internal source material and open discussion should lead to agreement in some areas and agreement to disagree in other areas. Both improve knowledge and awareness of the issues in our field.

Intention to offend will not be tolerated - I do not read it that way.

State your view while respecting other people will have different views.

Everyone operates to the best of their ability given the resources, knowledge and experience they have.

[desc]

I for one am not a great poster but am very glad that people like yourselves are here voicing those opinions. I do read them and enjoy some thoughts that I havent considered and someone finding references in the area so I do not have to trawl the internet for info on our area. Thank you Keep it up :D

[robw]

GUBN,


I fail to see how I caused offence. I can resolutely state none was intended.


I am in agreement with your statements regarding the support for those that are trying to make the lives of others better by banning floor restraints and the unacceptable level of restraint related deaths – whatever the setting. For the record I would be abhorred if the level of deaths were just one – which clearly they are not. I feel floor restraint is aversive and often antediluvian. The ends certainly do not justify the means.


I was interested in the figure you quoted as it seems to be a quite precise number and I often get asked how many people have died as a result of restraint related deaths by those advocating the use of floor restraints. I thought it might be useful for future use. However in the the quest to win hearts and minds, if I am to make an argument that contains a fact or statement, I feel it is important to be aware of where it may have come from, what are the caveats that might effect it and any deficits it may contain. “Preaching to the converted” is one thing. Convincing those in opposition requires an approach that will robustly stand up to scrutiny – as they often question the source of any facts or stats that I might use to explain my position whether it be a moral, legal or ethical issue.


I have and would also fiercely defend the right of anyone to have and state any opinion that did not incite harm or hate to others. I also passionately believe in the right to be able question anything or anyone – otherwise how else will we learn. Posting references will help me and others to do the later.


Best wishes, R.

[Intorce09]

As an aside, and to follow on fro some of the information Del gave on another thread - at the Autism Conference in Cardiff last week, very few people were aware of the guidance re:banning prone restraint in Wales. If people know nothing about it how can it possibly occur, and how is it monitored? I think i have asked this before, but does anyone know the answer??

[giveupbehaviourismnow]

In terms of monitoring, the HIW and CSSIW are the registration folk, the people are supposed to audit and report restraint issues so there should be some record somewhere!!
If it is a private company then if they are commisioned by the nhs or ss they become agents of the commissioning body and have to abide by there governance arrangements, so as in Powys if floor restraint is not allowed then the agency should follow and not teach or use floor restraints, the commissioners would then also monitor practice as well.
If you wanted to know a freedom of information request detailing the request could be made to these bodies.