Download Discussion Area

[anon_e-mouse]

After visiting the download session i feel that there should be a place to air our views on what is in there maybe there should be a thread on each that we can respond to. maybe one of the admin staff moderators or anyone here can give their take on what these documents mean or key points that we think are important about it.

I am particularly keen on seeking opinions of the Rocky Bennett pdf download.

This person died.

some people might say he was killed by his carers.


What things should I be looking at in the 88 page document?
how was held before he died?
was it the comforting embrace of a caring adult helping a young man in distress or something more sinister?
Whats the staffing story?
how come all the experts are listed as witnesses but many were not present?
How many people died like this in 2005?

[forumAdmin]

good point anon e-mouse

would you like to rename this thread as a discussion on the Rocky Bennet case? or would you like to start a thread of questions on this case in the Physical Intervention or Legal forum. If you would prefer I will move the thread for you?

we want to keep the download area lean from general comments but we do intend on getting the seniors to produce some content about the links, we have only added them at the weekend.

some good questions
thank you and welcome to the forum

forumAdmin

[anon_e-mouse]

:D Thanks forumAdmin

If this thread gets untidy i am sure you will organise it appropriately!

Anyone got a summary on the 88 page PDF that they are willing to share?

[andy]

The report highlights an increasingly controversial subject. Mr Bennett was held for over 20 minutes in a prones position. I think the recommendations of the report strongly indicate that the investigators were not too sanguine about prone holds. They recommended that such holds should be used for a maximum of 3 minutes. Unfortunately, this recommendation was not accepted by the DOH. To be fair the investigators also highlighted 'instituional racism' as being a contributory factor.

I think this case is a wake up call.

[anon_e-mouse]

Thanks andy

I guess that even 3 minutes in that position is unnessesary if you have alternatives but i am surprised that 20 minutes can kill.

Its hard to believe that it takes such a short time to end a life.

do you have any figures on how may per year?
how come there isnt more in the papers about this stuff?

I can remember Victoria Climbie http://www.victoria-climbie-inquiry.org.uk/ being massive news why not something this i dont get it?

[forumAdmin]

it certainly can take alot less time for a life to end

I met a staff group a number of years ago where a death had occurred in the few weeks previously (I had met this person). The staff had decided to put him face down and inject him during an incident (the injection did not take place)

-within 3 minutes (their words) the nurses were doing CPR and mouth to mouth

he died and I believe the report came back - "death by mis-adventure"
he apparently had a large heart and it could not cope in the position at the arousal state.

this is all only my recolection based on discussions with staff

it does not take much to be wrong with someone for them to have real trouble being held in that way

As an example - Asthma - being held face down on a dusty carpet when your heart rate is racing and you are struggling.....? -thoughts?

have you been to millfieldscharter.com ?
http://millfieldscharter.com/

[anon_e-mouse]

I have had a good hunt round that site especially the downloads area, i had a look at each document before i signed up to this forum, to get an idea of the type of community this might be.... i think its well worth looking at. The problem with those kinds of sites is what are the rules about data protection etc as the whole purpose would be to generate a list to present to a third party and make a claim that you have public opinion on your side. As you can probably tell from my email address and forum name, privacy is important.

If your comments about the less than 3 minute death is true then its not surprising that the 3 minute rule was not adopted as it would not make the use of that restraint any safer?

Mind you if you have staff with a 3minute egg timer or a stopwatch handy at the time of the incident then the thinking at that place has gone a little crazy there anyway. Maybe if the stopwatch was big enough it could prevent a few incidents i can think of a few people who would stop and stare if a huge one was rolled in during an incident and as always it would be a good thing to hide behind! The trouble you would have choosing a designated stopwatch person and is it likely that you have enough spare staff for one person to stand there with watch in hand...... i can also imagine all sorts of problems if you had to have an egg timer in each room...

Another thought :rolleyes: I wonder if any studies were done to establish how many minutes of restraint it would take to kill half the subject group? :confused:

seriously,
Considering how many H&S type forms are needed to take someone on a bicycle or a trip to the local shops i am surprised that any restraint procedure is so easily accepted. I think it was on one of your courses that one of the trainers said that any techniques used should not have death as a recognized side effect.

[forumAdmin]

I think it was on one of your courses that one of the trainers said that any techniques used should not have death as a recognized side effect.

or broken bone


good quote
have you been on a Studio3 course?
is this your experience of a studio3 course?

forumAdmin